I take offense to the “unemployed” part. How else would I buy all my expensive merch if not for my job lol
Needed article.
bts and barbie spark a lot more joy in me than fragile men who never grew out of “ew girl cooties” phase.
as an employed grown-ass woman i feel it’s my duty to be more outspoken about my love for *girly* things. ✌🏼🌺💄🩷
Thank you for sharing. Honestly BTS have renewed my faith that there are maybe some good men out there. I’m still waiting tho
This is a topic I’ve thought about for a while, and it’s made me feel more empowered in liking all the “girly” or “more feminine” things I like. I’m trying to be better about not feeling afraid or nervous about sharing the things I’m passionate about, because they ARE worth the time I spend on them!
This is why I’ve never mentioned my love for BTS to my brother. The amount of shit I took from him when I was a kid for loving NKOTB… And men who do this do it so casually, too. Like it’s totally normal, acceptable behavior.
This is well timed lol – my husband just picked up my copy of the book and started reading out passages, intending to gently tease me. I already have a hard time sharing my interests with anyone for fear of judgement so I’m annoyed with him right now. He didn’t mean to upset me but he doesn’t realise that women constantly face mockery for just enjoying stuff and it’s exhausting!
Thank you for sharing. This is something I feel so strongly about. I’ve always been into dolls, boybands, and anything Jane Austen lol. I went through a phase in my early 20s where I pretended not to be into them because I thought it made me uncool. It is so sad that’s how we are meant to feel about what makes us happy.
Nothing makes me madder than when something is belittled because it’s for “15-year-old girls” as if the joys and passions of teen girls don’t count as real. And then you get older you are “too old”. When the hell are women the right age to enjoy things then? I’m 32 now and unabashedly loud and proud about the things I love, and hope my daughters never feel shame in the things that they enjoy.
Obligatory, Fuck the patriarchy!
I’m a 26 year old woman, I love BTS.
I’ve noticed that many acts that were hated on for being “for girls” that managed to shake that label over the years gain more “respect” from media. The Beatles, Taylor Swift etc. Media geared towards men, adversely, doesn’t have to rely on being more enticing for woman for example, video games gaining a big female audience didn’t help its reputation. Men are not the arbiters of what’s good.
We need to stop worrying about what “masculine culture” has to say. I hate to bring it up but woman gaining more autonomy over their lives is literally making men more miserable. They date less, and they have to do more appeal to women now and they despise that. They are losing their power over the culture.
This is so true. I’ve learned to be unashamed about the “girly” things I enjoy. From BTS to cheesy movies, yoga and embroidery.
It may sound dumb, but nowadays men trying to make fun of those hobbies are such a big turn-off. Not because “I can’t take a bit of teasing”, it’s simply that most of those guys end up being so insecure and even hateful.
Ugh, this is my dad exactly. He makes fun of me for loving BTS, says it’s music “for teenyboppers,” that BTS “have no talent,” and “all they do is jump around,” but…his favorite band is The Beatles. You know, the British boy band that was extremely popular with teen girls, so much so that people even coined a term for it (Beatlemania). It’s so hypocritical and infuriating.
Edit: forgot to add that he also says they’re “not real men,” because they wear makeup and earrings. 🤦♀️
So because I’m old, came across the word “mid” twice today – first time was a comment about Taylor Swift being a “Mid” (espn account) and second time was in this article…
The men who are making these “mid” comments must be quite the stud *sarcasm*
I love how Bangtan is breaking free from Toxic Masculinity. You can be soft, pretty but incredibly masculine (Bretman Rock comes to mind too).
It sure is depressing that this is a conversation that has to cycle around. And around. And around. Because I’ve definitely seen people discussing these concepts (basically patriarchy and toxic masculinity reinforcing itself over and over and over) for as long as I’ve been on the internet, and unfortunately this is only the latest iteration. Though the last few years it’s gotten louder, I think since social media (which has been a mistake lol) has let both the toxic comments and the pushback get louder and more easily circulated, so people can find each other that support their stances and then dogpile.
At least this issue is still being discussed and people are pushing back 💪
My nephew who is 25 gave me a BTS calendar for my birthday. I love my fam!
I think they’re just jelly that women’s attention (although I don’t like saying this because it’s not just women) is going elsewhere. I’m married and in my 30s and my husband is not the only thing that brings me joy. Lol He can try a little tease here and there but he knows I could care less. I’m not giving up anything that other’s deem “uncool”. Make your own choices, it’s your life.
Let me tell you though…the first time I went to go see BTS, guess who insisted he go too?? My hubby!🤭
My husband is so good. He never gives me any grief or makes fun of me outside of small good natured jokes, about on the same level of him poking fun of me for being addicted to Diet Coke. Never questions the (too frequent) Weverse packages that arrive. Encourages me to have fun when I take off without him and travel to concerts. I’ve got a good one.
My dad really called me gay for my love of BTS. I just hate it.
Oh. I’ve often made this rant to people in real life because I can’t stand when people invalidate the tastes of teenage girls because they are teenage girls. It’s insulting.
Whenever I see comments that say, “they’re fans are teenage girls” it’s upsetting. Especially when women, in my opinion, have a tremendous track record. Look at Beatle-mania, Elvis Presley, Taylor Swift… all are artists who have gone on to have incredible critical acclaim. However, people were very dismissive of their fan base at the start of their careers.
My teenage years are behind me. But I still don’t like to see them ridiculed and disrespected for liking what they like and having fun. Let people like what they like and don’t criticize their tastes. If you don’t like it – move on.
Exactly why I never bring up BTS at work unless I know the men aren’t toxic cry babies. My coworker said it was “unrealistic” for a man to slap Barbie’s ass and have no one step in. He would’ve liked if someone stepped in rather than her punch him. He thinks men step in all the time (but he also doesn’t think men blatantly harass women either). He also didn’t believe *I’ve* been harassed many times with no one stepping. Toxic men don’t want to believe or listen to women and anything feminine, including female issues, is stupid in their eyes.
This is like the story of my life hahah. I’m the youngest sibling and the only girl, and growing up my brothers gave me so much shit because of the things that I liked. That part about having a male friend who played “girl stuff” with them and didn’t care about gender roles is completely contrary to my experience, as I was even gatekept from stuff that wasn’t “for girls”, because I wouldn’t be able to get it. 🙄
I love how there’s much more awareness about how much prejudice there is against media made for and consumed mostly by women these days. As unserious an issue as it may look for some, especially for men, so many young girls go through a hard time because of that. I personally only came to terms with being open about things that I like, from music, to shows, to books, when I was already into my 20s.
Mehhh then when girls/woman enjoy things not considered girly get called “fake” to attract guys attention when just enjoying a hobby so can never win lol Guys just don’t like girls/woman enjoying anything…
Don’t need validation from unknown guys for what I can enjoy🥰
The best part of hitting my 30s is not giving a flying you-know-what about what other people think. I like the spice girls. I saw Barbie and loved it. I like kpop. I like punk rock and metal. I still embrace my emo phase. I don’t have to subscribe to just one archetype, and if anyone has a problem, they don’t matter.
My husband sometimes thinks I’m ridiculous, but he spent $3K on a meat smoker and built it a pavilion with AstroTurf and hanging lights. We let each other enjoy things and love to watch the other one be happy. I hope the girls of today find this type of happy as they grow up instead of having to fight for it or feel bad about it like so many of us did as we came into our own.
I can’t access the article, but I’m inspired to go on a rant!!!
I wish someone could have made me understand this at 14. I tried so, so hard to be cooler than “other girls.” I wanted the respect of the boys so badly. I wore black and clothes from the boys’ section. I refused to acknowledge that part of my heart wanted to be a One Direction fan. I tried to listen to all this shitty nu metal to be on the same musical page as what I thought the boys listened to. I learned to play guitar to get respect from guys (although I really fell in love with it and don’t regret picking it up one bit). I did the most to try to be edgy and cool. I tried to enjoy Donnie Darko because a neighborhood boy I liked wanted to watch it. I was still a dorky youth group kid, but whatever. I literally felt ashamed that I liked Marina and the Diamonds (as she was then known) because it was pop and pop was for teenage girls (it was a pretty shitty era for pop music, and genre wasn’t as blended as it is now).
And it’s like, by the time I got to college, I couldn’t do it anymore. I simply could not. I wanted pink hair and skirts and I was just getting into BTS (this was back in the I Need You/Run era!!!). And I was suddenly surrounded by so many young women who made me think, wow, being a woman is an awesome thing and I should embrace my authentic way of being one!
Because if men cannot respect me when I present as a feminine person with stereotypically feminine interests, the respect I would get from them by costuming myself as masculine would not be *real* respect.
None of this is to say that there are truly boundaries on what a woman may like or what a man may like. If you are a man who likes BTS or a woman who likes fishing, go OFF.
Anyway, boybands are fucking fun and wonderful and the Barbie movie was fun and wonderful and I love being a woman even though sometimes men like to stomp on what I like.
I hate reading things like this, because it makes me feel so bad for people who don’t have untoxic men surrounding them.
I grew up with the privilege of brothers and a father that either didn’t care or encouraged anything that made me HAPPY. Who cared if it was barbies and Nsync->Good Charlotte->kings of leon->BTS.
I’ve always had a boy band type that I was completely and utterly into, and being the only girl in my family (at the time, I now have a wonderful younger sister who has been able to find her true self these past couple years) I was never talked down to because of it. And that’s how my siblings grew up too.
And then I find a man like my husband who, quite literally bought me a JK and Jin cardboard cut out. Bout me my first BTS album. And when I went to go see Yoongi at DDay D-1 he wanted me to put Namjoon (his bias) in my PC slot on my Stadium bag because HE (my husband) couldn’t attend the show. hahah.
And Just today I came up to him and asked if he thought it was too early to download a ver of the barbie movie so I could watch it. He was like ” Yeah but it would be a sucky ver, let’s just go see the movie tonight”
And it’s small things like this that make me feel terrible about people who identify as women or people that identify as men that get sucked into these toxic norms. The microaggressions that they face all day every day must be draining. What if finally we figure out that everything is genderless? (Obv not counting medical devices for specific body parts)
I don’t know, I’m not eloquent when it comes to expressing these things because I am a white female who grew up in a nontoxic masc household. But I know my privileges’ and if there is anyway I can help and comfort people who deal with this on the regular I want to. <3
Much love to anyone struggling. I feel you, I see you. And I’m just this 30 something here to listen and love.
no because the way I’ve stopped playing bts’ music and mentioning bts around my family due to the amount of xenophobia and racist comments they made (despite being asian themselves) is mind boggling. calling them gay or ‘chinese’ in such a demeaning way that it just ruins my whole day the moment they open their mouths to comment on bts. i just failed to understand why are they so hellbent on making fun of bts so i just decided to keep it to myself in hopes of never hearing another insulting comment from them.
That’s why I, a 34yo woman with an academic career, stay incognito. I’m an hardcore army since 2016 (and a kpop fan since 11yo) and nobody knows (apart from my army friends), my family only knows the lite version of my obsession.
I don’t care that nobody knows. It’s peace.
I’m in my early 30s and I was raised by an amazing single mom to unabashedly love and enjoy whatever it was that made me happy and to just be myself in every way and to love and accept myself wholly. I gravitated towards the more stereotypical feminine/girly interests/hobbies because, well, I was truly drawn to them. And I was and still am very confident about my interests, hobbies, passions, etc and I proudly have a little Namjoon collage in my phone case with K-Pop (multi fan here) ringtones and text tones and BTS lock screen and home screen wallpapers and my bedroom walls are covered in K-Pop posters and such. I loved boybands when I was a kid. I loved and still love the color pink, wearing dresses and skirts, practicing yoga and so on.
My boyfriend is neutral overall on my love of BTS and K-Pop. As are my two good male friends. And I’m fine with that.
The same things were said of The Beatles fanbase and also Frank Sinatra, women and girls enjoyed their music and frequented their shows the most so both were dismissed as bad artists and a passing phase.
And now who loves The Beatles and Sinatra the most? Who goes on long, unprompted rants if a woman says she enjoys them because she can’t possibly be a “real” fan and quiz women on their cousins best friends cats middle name to prove they’re a true fan?
As a man who loves BTS, I’ve accepted the roastings and will still flex how talented they are to turn people who don’t get it. Sometimes it works. Most of the time it doesn’t.
That said, they definitely gear some amount of their communication and content toward being or acting cute. It isn’t for me but it doesn’t bother me, I get who their main target audience is. And honestly it’s made me more comfortable with cuteness/feminine things.
Also enjoyed Barbie, idk why people have a problem with it.
This pisses me off so much not only for all the obvious reasons, but also, I’m sorry, 15 year old girls run a bigger part of the economy than anyone is giving them credit for. Their taste absolutely directs trends and where spending is being done. They will be earners soon enough if not already.
ETA: I did read the article, but even just the photo depicts RECORD BREAKING acts. Pop is short for Popular culture. Popular. People disparaging these things don’t have a leg to stand on, we’ve got the literal receipts.
Ahh I could do a whole TED talk on this.
I am a huge football (soccer) fan, have supported the same team my whole life, watch plenty of matches every season and “even know” the offside rule. And yet, no one takes me seriously and males constantly just tell me that as I’m not male I must be into it because find the players “hot”.
I’m a massive BTS fan and males constantly say I’m “too old” to like them because they are a ‘boy band’ and look female! I asked if any of them had heard any of their music and to which they unsurprisingly said no. I once wore a Daechwita t-shirt to work and got mocked relentlessly while a male colleague rocked up in an Iron Maiden t-shirt which was completely fine and “cool”.
Seriously, the judgements and contradictions are endless. It drives me wild. WILD 😡😂
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I have two guy friends who used to mock me relentlessly about “my kpop boys” in the beginning of our friendship. However, things shifted over time and also with me telling them to just lay it out why they feel the need to mock me for it. They got the answers I was able to give them and since then, aside from occasional teasing on a healthy friendship level, things have been better. Generally speaking, especially with one of them, I’ve kept on having chats about the struggle of being a woman who is passionate and vocal about something. About being ridiculed and seen as hysterical for supporting musicians I like. He has definitely changed his views on a lot of things and I’m grateful that he was – and still is, willing to listen and widen his horizon a bit. I also listened to him, as he made me aware of some struggles men have that don’t come to mind immediately. Essentially, he is fine now with not fully understanding why I like this music and why I’m so passionate about this – but neither do I understand all of his obsessions. We don’t need each other’s validation to like certain things. Which apparently was an epiphany for him. One conclusion both of them came to still makes me giggle to this day: “I guess collecting photocards is not much different than collecting Pokemon or Magic cards. We could also just print those ourselves, but it wouldn’t be the same.” — like… no shit Sherlock 😆
As a man, I’m really glad I got away from my “friends” that were like this. Probably would have turned out just like them if I hadn’t.
This reminds me of a quote from one of their big magazine pieces from a few years ago (I wish I could remember it better, maybe it was the Esquire one) that said something like: “When the youth of the world shouts, the rest of us should listen”. That stayed with me and I’ve used it frequently when people ask me “why do you even care about this? It’s not important”. We get to decide what important and meaningful means to us and others can choose to look closer (or not), but they’re the ones missing out if they approach with criticism rather than curiosity.
It is sad that even men who don’t exude these traits to the extreme are often forced by society to show them. When I was in high school, I had all the Backstreet Boys albums, and my brother would often take them. He would listen to them in his room, but in public, he would always mock them. He would never express how much he liked Backstreet Boys to his friends because that wasn’t “manly.”
I remember that there was a morning radio show where I live that every Thursday they ask a question and the 1st caller to get the answer right wins a prize. My coworkers and I would listen to it while working. There was only 1 time that I got the answer right. The question was, “According to (I forget the name of the source), what is the number 1 thing men lie about the most?” I immediately said,”watching rom-coms. ” Ding Ding Ding Ding! The radio show said that the majority of men in Americs lie about their love of rom-coms and will even hide their DVDs from their girlfriends/wives in a secret stash. I guessed it because it took me almost 30 years to get my dad to admit that he liked rom-coms when I would see him watching “My Big Fat Greek Wedding”, “Blast from the Past”, “You’ve Got Mail”, etc. His excuse was always “I don’t like rom-coms, I like (actor name’s) performance in it.” After he retired and no longer felt the pressure of society, he admitted he likes them, although I did still have to go with him to see the Downton Abby movie. He was the biggest fan of the show, my mom didn’t want to see it, and he didn’t want to go alone with people wondering why a grown man was watching a chick movie by himself.
It isn’t just those extremes on the internet. Sometimes, society, in general, tells men to dislike what women like, otherwise they are not manly. It really is sad 😔.
men will always be haters while we have all the fun
When men try to shame me for liking what I like I shame them for liking and watching football and sports. I just use their words against them and the way they get so upset and don’t think it’s the same. It’s hilarious.
“We see the dichotomy, does the rest of the world?” Oof, why that hit so hard I don’t know. This is yet another piece highlighting the societal double standards when it comes to entertainment and media consumption. I think the most annoying underlying truth is that women are more likely than not to be pigeon-holed and judged based off of one particular thing we enjoy (be it BTS or loving rose gold, for example) rather than the whole of who we are, our interests, hobbies, passions, etc. Like once the season begins, I could, like that male football fan, talk about the whole lineup of the Tottenham Hotspurs and why I think their acquisition of James Maddison was a great decision. But if, in the same setting, I were to start talking about BTS and the setlist for the D-Day tour or conjecturing as to what V’s album is gonna be like, I would most likely be met with laughter at my expense and suddenly nothing that I said would be “interesting” or valid. I liked the author’s last line a lot –
>Perhaps it’s time we saw art, cinema and everything for its *merit* and not for the gender it appeals to.
I wish I had something more interesting and intelligent to say than my personal experience but I guess I will go anyway.
There was this girl I was really a close friend with in middle school (still am) and we joked around a lot, but there was one thing I would be (honestly) kinda dickish: listening to 1D (which was rich coming from me, who at the time at best would listen to videogame OSTs). Fast forward 3-4 years and I get the same treatment for being a male who listen to BTS.
Bottom line is that I guess it’s sad to say but untill you feel it personally, it’s hard to understand how damaging can be to make fun of other people’s hobbies and dreams.
When I was younger, I struggled to explore or even acknowledge my femininity because of my queerness but also because of how I grew up. I had two brothers growing up and they largely influenced what I found myself enjoying. Instead of Barbies, I was playing with their action figures and whatnot. Instead of boy bands, I was listening to emo and pop punk bands who were crazy popular at the time. I tried so hard to not b3 l1ke 0ther g1rls that I actively pushed away any sort of indication of femininity and at the same time ridiculed my girl friends about their tastes. I was that kid who hated One Direction and, by extension, K-pop because “they do not write their own songs and they’re just there to be ogled at by little girls”. When I did play with Barbies, I used them as accessories for my male dolls (not Ken tho…. I never had one. Think Elmo lol).
I realized growing older that I just wanted my brothers (esp. my older brother) to acknowledge me. I admired him so much and I subconsciously modeled myself after his tastes in things. And it’s not like he was peaceful about it; he would actively trash on hobbies and interests geared toward woman and I internalized that. From a young age, women are taught to do anything it takes to serve and pleasure the men in their life that it’s just insane.
I’m so glad I’m out of that phase and BTS is definitely a big part of that! Thankfully, I was 14 years old when I met them. When I first found myself liking them, I had major existential crisis lmao. I was so alarmed at the fact that I am falling for a K-pop boyband. But I knew they were something special, even within their industry, and so I pushed through my prejudice and internalized sexism to give their music a shot. Best decision of my life. I’m now at a point in my life where I’m slowly becoming comfortable with my “girly” interests and that actually, these labels don’t mean shit to me. In the great spirit of Barbenheimer, 🩷 and 🖤 do not have to be mutually exclusively things to enjoy. One can like masculine and feminine things at the same time. Like who gives a shit? Let’s just enjoy our lives the way we see fit.
Luckily my dad does not listen to them but will ask me how the guys are doing from time to time (he got stuck taking me to the emergency room in November and got to here me talk about Jin going into the military when on morphine)
My brothers one loves them one is in the middle and the oldest one doesn’t like anything K-pop but does think Bts is girly (I have made him listen to Agustd multiple times to prove that is not the case)
Women are often brainwashed into feeling that our interests are inferior to men’s interests. We need to realize if that we support the interests of the men we love, like sports, gaming, comic books, musicians, etc…then at the minimum we should expect that those men support our interests. If they mock you for liking something that makes you happy, then that is a real problem and you should absolutely make sure they know.
Thanks for posting this. I wish i could post it also on instagram and facebook. I think everyone should read it. i agree so much with the writer.
im 36 here and it happened to me with Backstreet boys and its happening to me again with BTS.
Im happy that now i have more arguments to call out men.
My husband and I went to Las Vegas last year to see BTS. Our arrangement was while I was at the concert he was gambling. I definitely had the better time. He has also gone to the movie theater concerts with me. He’s paid for all the merch because I don’t work. I’m very lucky and grateful.
I take offense to the “unemployed” part. How else would I buy all my expensive merch if not for my job lol
Needed article.
bts and barbie spark a lot more joy in me than fragile men who never grew out of “ew girl cooties” phase.
as an employed grown-ass woman i feel it’s my duty to be more outspoken about my love for *girly* things. ✌🏼🌺💄🩷
Thank you for sharing. Honestly BTS have renewed my faith that there are maybe some good men out there. I’m still waiting tho
This is a topic I’ve thought about for a while, and it’s made me feel more empowered in liking all the “girly” or “more feminine” things I like. I’m trying to be better about not feeling afraid or nervous about sharing the things I’m passionate about, because they ARE worth the time I spend on them!
This is why I’ve never mentioned my love for BTS to my brother. The amount of shit I took from him when I was a kid for loving NKOTB… And men who do this do it so casually, too. Like it’s totally normal, acceptable behavior.
This is well timed lol – my husband just picked up my copy of the book and started reading out passages, intending to gently tease me. I already have a hard time sharing my interests with anyone for fear of judgement so I’m annoyed with him right now. He didn’t mean to upset me but he doesn’t realise that women constantly face mockery for just enjoying stuff and it’s exhausting!
Thank you for sharing. This is something I feel so strongly about. I’ve always been into dolls, boybands, and anything Jane Austen lol. I went through a phase in my early 20s where I pretended not to be into them because I thought it made me uncool. It is so sad that’s how we are meant to feel about what makes us happy.
Nothing makes me madder than when something is belittled because it’s for “15-year-old girls” as if the joys and passions of teen girls don’t count as real. And then you get older you are “too old”. When the hell are women the right age to enjoy things then? I’m 32 now and unabashedly loud and proud about the things I love, and hope my daughters never feel shame in the things that they enjoy.
Obligatory, Fuck the patriarchy!
I’m a 26 year old woman, I love BTS.
I’ve noticed that many acts that were hated on for being “for girls” that managed to shake that label over the years gain more “respect” from media. The Beatles, Taylor Swift etc. Media geared towards men, adversely, doesn’t have to rely on being more enticing for woman for example, video games gaining a big female audience didn’t help its reputation. Men are not the arbiters of what’s good.
We need to stop worrying about what “masculine culture” has to say. I hate to bring it up but woman gaining more autonomy over their lives is literally making men more miserable. They date less, and they have to do more appeal to women now and they despise that. They are losing their power over the culture.
This is so true. I’ve learned to be unashamed about the “girly” things I enjoy. From BTS to cheesy movies, yoga and embroidery.
It may sound dumb, but nowadays men trying to make fun of those hobbies are such a big turn-off. Not because “I can’t take a bit of teasing”, it’s simply that most of those guys end up being so insecure and even hateful.
Ugh, this is my dad exactly. He makes fun of me for loving BTS, says it’s music “for teenyboppers,” that BTS “have no talent,” and “all they do is jump around,” but…his favorite band is The Beatles. You know, the British boy band that was extremely popular with teen girls, so much so that people even coined a term for it (Beatlemania). It’s so hypocritical and infuriating.
Edit: forgot to add that he also says they’re “not real men,” because they wear makeup and earrings. 🤦♀️
So because I’m old, came across the word “mid” twice today – first time was a comment about Taylor Swift being a “Mid” (espn account) and second time was in this article…
The men who are making these “mid” comments must be quite the stud *sarcasm*
I love how Bangtan is breaking free from Toxic Masculinity. You can be soft, pretty but incredibly masculine (Bretman Rock comes to mind too).
It sure is depressing that this is a conversation that has to cycle around. And around. And around. Because I’ve definitely seen people discussing these concepts (basically patriarchy and toxic masculinity reinforcing itself over and over and over) for as long as I’ve been on the internet, and unfortunately this is only the latest iteration. Though the last few years it’s gotten louder, I think since social media (which has been a mistake lol) has let both the toxic comments and the pushback get louder and more easily circulated, so people can find each other that support their stances and then dogpile.
At least this issue is still being discussed and people are pushing back 💪
My nephew who is 25 gave me a BTS calendar for my birthday. I love my fam!
I think they’re just jelly that women’s attention (although I don’t like saying this because it’s not just women) is going elsewhere. I’m married and in my 30s and my husband is not the only thing that brings me joy. Lol He can try a little tease here and there but he knows I could care less. I’m not giving up anything that other’s deem “uncool”. Make your own choices, it’s your life.
Let me tell you though…the first time I went to go see BTS, guess who insisted he go too?? My hubby!🤭
My husband is so good. He never gives me any grief or makes fun of me outside of small good natured jokes, about on the same level of him poking fun of me for being addicted to Diet Coke. Never questions the (too frequent) Weverse packages that arrive. Encourages me to have fun when I take off without him and travel to concerts. I’ve got a good one.
My dad really called me gay for my love of BTS. I just hate it.
Oh. I’ve often made this rant to people in real life because I can’t stand when people invalidate the tastes of teenage girls because they are teenage girls. It’s insulting.
Whenever I see comments that say, “they’re fans are teenage girls” it’s upsetting. Especially when women, in my opinion, have a tremendous track record. Look at Beatle-mania, Elvis Presley, Taylor Swift… all are artists who have gone on to have incredible critical acclaim. However, people were very dismissive of their fan base at the start of their careers.
My teenage years are behind me. But I still don’t like to see them ridiculed and disrespected for liking what they like and having fun. Let people like what they like and don’t criticize their tastes. If you don’t like it – move on.
Exactly why I never bring up BTS at work unless I know the men aren’t toxic cry babies. My coworker said it was “unrealistic” for a man to slap Barbie’s ass and have no one step in. He would’ve liked if someone stepped in rather than her punch him. He thinks men step in all the time (but he also doesn’t think men blatantly harass women either). He also didn’t believe *I’ve* been harassed many times with no one stepping. Toxic men don’t want to believe or listen to women and anything feminine, including female issues, is stupid in their eyes.
This is like the story of my life hahah. I’m the youngest sibling and the only girl, and growing up my brothers gave me so much shit because of the things that I liked. That part about having a male friend who played “girl stuff” with them and didn’t care about gender roles is completely contrary to my experience, as I was even gatekept from stuff that wasn’t “for girls”, because I wouldn’t be able to get it. 🙄
I love how there’s much more awareness about how much prejudice there is against media made for and consumed mostly by women these days. As unserious an issue as it may look for some, especially for men, so many young girls go through a hard time because of that. I personally only came to terms with being open about things that I like, from music, to shows, to books, when I was already into my 20s.
Mehhh then when girls/woman enjoy things not considered girly get called “fake” to attract guys attention when just enjoying a hobby so can never win lol Guys just don’t like girls/woman enjoying anything…
Don’t need validation from unknown guys for what I can enjoy🥰
The best part of hitting my 30s is not giving a flying you-know-what about what other people think. I like the spice girls. I saw Barbie and loved it. I like kpop. I like punk rock and metal. I still embrace my emo phase. I don’t have to subscribe to just one archetype, and if anyone has a problem, they don’t matter.
My husband sometimes thinks I’m ridiculous, but he spent $3K on a meat smoker and built it a pavilion with AstroTurf and hanging lights. We let each other enjoy things and love to watch the other one be happy. I hope the girls of today find this type of happy as they grow up instead of having to fight for it or feel bad about it like so many of us did as we came into our own.
I can’t access the article, but I’m inspired to go on a rant!!!
I wish someone could have made me understand this at 14. I tried so, so hard to be cooler than “other girls.” I wanted the respect of the boys so badly. I wore black and clothes from the boys’ section. I refused to acknowledge that part of my heart wanted to be a One Direction fan. I tried to listen to all this shitty nu metal to be on the same musical page as what I thought the boys listened to. I learned to play guitar to get respect from guys (although I really fell in love with it and don’t regret picking it up one bit). I did the most to try to be edgy and cool. I tried to enjoy Donnie Darko because a neighborhood boy I liked wanted to watch it. I was still a dorky youth group kid, but whatever. I literally felt ashamed that I liked Marina and the Diamonds (as she was then known) because it was pop and pop was for teenage girls (it was a pretty shitty era for pop music, and genre wasn’t as blended as it is now).
And it’s like, by the time I got to college, I couldn’t do it anymore. I simply could not. I wanted pink hair and skirts and I was just getting into BTS (this was back in the I Need You/Run era!!!). And I was suddenly surrounded by so many young women who made me think, wow, being a woman is an awesome thing and I should embrace my authentic way of being one!
Because if men cannot respect me when I present as a feminine person with stereotypically feminine interests, the respect I would get from them by costuming myself as masculine would not be *real* respect.
None of this is to say that there are truly boundaries on what a woman may like or what a man may like. If you are a man who likes BTS or a woman who likes fishing, go OFF.
Anyway, boybands are fucking fun and wonderful and the Barbie movie was fun and wonderful and I love being a woman even though sometimes men like to stomp on what I like.
I hate reading things like this, because it makes me feel so bad for people who don’t have untoxic men surrounding them.
I grew up with the privilege of brothers and a father that either didn’t care or encouraged anything that made me HAPPY. Who cared if it was barbies and Nsync->Good Charlotte->kings of leon->BTS.
I’ve always had a boy band type that I was completely and utterly into, and being the only girl in my family (at the time, I now have a wonderful younger sister who has been able to find her true self these past couple years) I was never talked down to because of it. And that’s how my siblings grew up too.
And then I find a man like my husband who, quite literally bought me a JK and Jin cardboard cut out. Bout me my first BTS album. And when I went to go see Yoongi at DDay D-1 he wanted me to put Namjoon (his bias) in my PC slot on my Stadium bag because HE (my husband) couldn’t attend the show. hahah.
And Just today I came up to him and asked if he thought it was too early to download a ver of the barbie movie so I could watch it. He was like ” Yeah but it would be a sucky ver, let’s just go see the movie tonight”
And it’s small things like this that make me feel terrible about people who identify as women or people that identify as men that get sucked into these toxic norms. The microaggressions that they face all day every day must be draining. What if finally we figure out that everything is genderless? (Obv not counting medical devices for specific body parts)
I don’t know, I’m not eloquent when it comes to expressing these things because I am a white female who grew up in a nontoxic masc household. But I know my privileges’ and if there is anyway I can help and comfort people who deal with this on the regular I want to. <3
Much love to anyone struggling. I feel you, I see you. And I’m just this 30 something here to listen and love.
no because the way I’ve stopped playing bts’ music and mentioning bts around my family due to the amount of xenophobia and racist comments they made (despite being asian themselves) is mind boggling. calling them gay or ‘chinese’ in such a demeaning way that it just ruins my whole day the moment they open their mouths to comment on bts. i just failed to understand why are they so hellbent on making fun of bts so i just decided to keep it to myself in hopes of never hearing another insulting comment from them.
That’s why I, a 34yo woman with an academic career, stay incognito. I’m an hardcore army since 2016 (and a kpop fan since 11yo) and nobody knows (apart from my army friends), my family only knows the lite version of my obsession.
I don’t care that nobody knows. It’s peace.
I’m in my early 30s and I was raised by an amazing single mom to unabashedly love and enjoy whatever it was that made me happy and to just be myself in every way and to love and accept myself wholly. I gravitated towards the more stereotypical feminine/girly interests/hobbies because, well, I was truly drawn to them. And I was and still am very confident about my interests, hobbies, passions, etc and I proudly have a little Namjoon collage in my phone case with K-Pop (multi fan here) ringtones and text tones and BTS lock screen and home screen wallpapers and my bedroom walls are covered in K-Pop posters and such.
I loved boybands when I was a kid. I loved and still love the color pink, wearing dresses and skirts, practicing yoga and so on.
My boyfriend is neutral overall on my love of BTS and K-Pop. As are my two good male friends. And I’m fine with that.
The same things were said of The Beatles fanbase and also Frank Sinatra, women and girls enjoyed their music and frequented their shows the most so both were dismissed as bad artists and a passing phase.
And now who loves The Beatles and Sinatra the most? Who goes on long, unprompted rants if a woman says she enjoys them because she can’t possibly be a “real” fan and quiz women on their cousins best friends cats middle name to prove they’re a true fan?
As a man who loves BTS, I’ve accepted the roastings and will still flex how talented they are to turn people who don’t get it. Sometimes it works. Most of the time it doesn’t.
That said, they definitely gear some amount of their communication and content toward being or acting cute. It isn’t for me but it doesn’t bother me, I get who their main target audience is. And honestly it’s made me more comfortable with cuteness/feminine things.
Also enjoyed Barbie, idk why people have a problem with it.
This pisses me off so much not only for all the obvious reasons, but also, I’m sorry, 15 year old girls run a bigger part of the economy than anyone is giving them credit for. Their taste absolutely directs trends and where spending is being done. They will be earners soon enough if not already.
ETA: I did read the article, but even just the photo depicts RECORD BREAKING acts. Pop is short for Popular culture. Popular. People disparaging these things don’t have a leg to stand on, we’ve got the literal receipts.
Ahh I could do a whole TED talk on this.
I am a huge football (soccer) fan, have supported the same team my whole life, watch plenty of matches every season and “even know” the offside rule. And yet, no one takes me seriously and males constantly just tell me that as I’m not male I must be into it because find the players “hot”.
I’m a massive BTS fan and males constantly say I’m “too old” to like them because they are a ‘boy band’ and look female! I asked if any of them had heard any of their music and to which they unsurprisingly said no. I once wore a Daechwita t-shirt to work and got mocked relentlessly while a male colleague rocked up in an Iron Maiden t-shirt which was completely fine and “cool”.
Seriously, the judgements and contradictions are endless. It drives me wild. WILD 😡😂
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I have two guy friends who used to mock me relentlessly about “my kpop boys” in the beginning of our friendship. However, things shifted over time and also with me telling them to just lay it out why they feel the need to mock me for it. They got the answers I was able to give them and since then, aside from occasional teasing on a healthy friendship level, things have been better. Generally speaking, especially with one of them, I’ve kept on having chats about the struggle of being a woman who is passionate and vocal about something. About being ridiculed and seen as hysterical for supporting musicians I like. He has definitely changed his views on a lot of things and I’m grateful that he was – and still is, willing to listen and widen his horizon a bit. I also listened to him, as he made me aware of some struggles men have that don’t come to mind immediately.
Essentially, he is fine now with not fully understanding why I like this music and why I’m so passionate about this – but neither do I understand all of his obsessions. We don’t need each other’s validation to like certain things. Which apparently was an epiphany for him.
One conclusion both of them came to still makes me giggle to this day: “I guess collecting photocards is not much different than collecting Pokemon or Magic cards. We could also just print those ourselves, but it wouldn’t be the same.” — like… no shit Sherlock 😆
As a man, I’m really glad I got away from my “friends” that were like this. Probably would have turned out just like them if I hadn’t.
This reminds me of a quote from one of their big magazine pieces from a few years ago (I wish I could remember it better, maybe it was the Esquire one) that said something like: “When the youth of the world shouts, the rest of us should listen”. That stayed with me and I’ve used it frequently when people ask me “why do you even care about this? It’s not important”. We get to decide what important and meaningful means to us and others can choose to look closer (or not), but they’re the ones missing out if they approach with criticism rather than curiosity.
It is sad that even men who don’t exude these traits to the extreme are often forced by society to show them. When I was in high school, I had all the Backstreet Boys albums, and my brother would often take them. He would listen to them in his room, but in public, he would always mock them. He would never express how much he liked Backstreet Boys to his friends because that wasn’t “manly.”
I remember that there was a morning radio show where I live that every Thursday they ask a question and the 1st caller to get the answer right wins a prize. My coworkers and I would listen to it while working. There was only 1 time that I got the answer right. The question was, “According to (I forget the name of the source), what is the number 1 thing men lie about the most?” I immediately said,”watching rom-coms. ” Ding Ding Ding Ding! The radio show said that the majority of men in Americs lie about their love of rom-coms and will even hide their DVDs from their girlfriends/wives in a secret stash. I guessed it because it took me almost 30 years to get my dad to admit that he liked rom-coms when I would see him watching “My Big Fat Greek Wedding”, “Blast from the Past”, “You’ve Got Mail”, etc. His excuse was always “I don’t like rom-coms, I like (actor name’s) performance in it.” After he retired and no longer felt the pressure of society, he admitted he likes them, although I did still have to go with him to see the Downton Abby movie. He was the biggest fan of the show, my mom didn’t want to see it, and he didn’t want to go alone with people wondering why a grown man was watching a chick movie by himself.
It isn’t just those extremes on the internet. Sometimes, society, in general, tells men to dislike what women like, otherwise they are not manly. It really is sad 😔.
men will always be haters while we have all the fun
When men try to shame me for liking what I like I shame them for liking and watching football and sports. I just use their words against them and the way they get so upset and don’t think it’s the same. It’s hilarious.
“We see the dichotomy, does the rest of the world?” Oof, why that hit so hard I don’t know. This is yet another piece highlighting the societal double standards when it comes to entertainment and media consumption. I think the most annoying underlying truth is that women are more likely than not to be pigeon-holed and judged based off of one particular thing we enjoy (be it BTS or loving rose gold, for example) rather than the whole of who we are, our interests, hobbies, passions, etc. Like once the season begins, I could, like that male football fan, talk about the whole lineup of the Tottenham Hotspurs and why I think their acquisition of James Maddison was a great decision. But if, in the same setting, I were to start talking about BTS and the setlist for the D-Day tour or conjecturing as to what V’s album is gonna be like, I would most likely be met with laughter at my expense and suddenly nothing that I said would be “interesting” or valid. I liked the author’s last line a lot –
>Perhaps it’s time we saw art, cinema and everything for its *merit* and not for the gender it appeals to.
I wish I had something more interesting and intelligent to say than my personal experience but I guess I will go anyway.
There was this girl I was really a close friend with in middle school (still am) and we joked around a lot, but there was one thing I would be (honestly) kinda dickish: listening to 1D (which was rich coming from me, who at the time at best would listen to videogame OSTs). Fast forward 3-4 years and I get the same treatment for being a male who listen to BTS.
Bottom line is that I guess it’s sad to say but untill you feel it personally, it’s hard to understand how damaging can be to make fun of other people’s hobbies and dreams.
When I was younger, I struggled to explore or even acknowledge my femininity because of my queerness but also because of how I grew up. I had two brothers growing up and they largely influenced what I found myself enjoying. Instead of Barbies, I was playing with their action figures and whatnot. Instead of boy bands, I was listening to emo and pop punk bands who were crazy popular at the time. I tried so hard to not b3 l1ke 0ther g1rls that I actively pushed away any sort of indication of femininity and at the same time ridiculed my girl friends about their tastes. I was that kid who hated One Direction and, by extension, K-pop because “they do not write their own songs and they’re just there to be ogled at by little girls”. When I did play with Barbies, I used them as accessories for my male dolls (not Ken tho…. I never had one. Think Elmo lol).
I realized growing older that I just wanted my brothers (esp. my older brother) to acknowledge me. I admired him so much and I subconsciously modeled myself after his tastes in things. And it’s not like he was peaceful about it; he would actively trash on hobbies and interests geared toward woman and I internalized that. From a young age, women are taught to do anything it takes to serve and pleasure the men in their life that it’s just insane.
I’m so glad I’m out of that phase and BTS is definitely a big part of that! Thankfully, I was 14 years old when I met them. When I first found myself liking them, I had major existential crisis lmao. I was so alarmed at the fact that I am falling for a K-pop boyband. But I knew they were something special, even within their industry, and so I pushed through my prejudice and internalized sexism to give their music a shot. Best decision of my life. I’m now at a point in my life where I’m slowly becoming comfortable with my “girly” interests and that actually, these labels don’t mean shit to me. In the great spirit of Barbenheimer, 🩷 and 🖤 do not have to be mutually exclusively things to enjoy. One can like masculine and feminine things at the same time. Like who gives a shit? Let’s just enjoy our lives the way we see fit.
Luckily my dad does not listen to them but will ask me how the guys are doing from time to time (he got stuck taking me to the emergency room in November and got to here me talk about Jin going into the military when on morphine)
My brothers one loves them one is in the middle and the oldest one doesn’t like anything K-pop but does think Bts is girly (I have made him listen to Agustd multiple times to prove that is not the case)
Women are often brainwashed into feeling that our interests are inferior to men’s interests. We need to realize if that we support the interests of the men we love, like sports, gaming, comic books, musicians, etc…then at the minimum we should expect that those men support our interests. If they mock you for liking something that makes you happy, then that is a real problem and you should absolutely make sure they know.
Thanks for posting this. I wish i could post it also on instagram and facebook. I think everyone should read it. i agree so much with the writer.
im 36 here and it happened to me with Backstreet boys and its happening to me again with BTS.
Im happy that now i have more arguments to call out men.
My husband and I went to Las Vegas last year to see BTS. Our arrangement was while I was at the concert he was gambling. I definitely had the better time. He has also gone to the movie theater concerts with me. He’s paid for all the merch because I don’t work. I’m very lucky and grateful.